#20: Can AI Create a Greener World?

Ian Bowie
Hello and welcome to AI unfiltered with me, Ian Bowie, and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom, where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Michael Stormbom
In today’s episode of the podcast, we’re going to be talking about how AI can have a positive impact on the environment. In a previous episode, we spoke primarily about the potentially negative impact of AI, an episode which we affectionally call the doomsday episode, but today we are going to try at least to focus more on the potentially positive aspects of AI and the role of AI in creating a greener world.

Ian Bowie
But yeah, I mean, if you think that you would have potentially quite huge greenhouses, which utilize vertical horticultural methods, you would multiply substantially the quantities that you could grow and then if you introduced horticultural LEDs you would vastly reduce the energy consumption and then you control it all with AI.

Michael Stormbom
So I mean, that would definitely be a role for AI in creating a more… a greener world, let’s put like that. So I mean, exactly optimizing energy consumption and minimizing energy consumption. So I think there’s definitely a role for AI there. I think Google they also use AI to optimize their own energy consumption. So first, they create…

Ian Bowie
Massive data farms.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. And then they use AI to…

Ian Bowie
It makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean, if you have something that requires huge amounts of power, you don’t really want to have to pay a bigger electric bill than you really want to. Of course, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So that’s how you make AI green. You use it to optimize things like energy consumption.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, indeed. And another place where AI can play a role in the optimization of for example transport routes. So if you’re trying to… the less route you have, the less road you have to travel, the… Yeah. And so I mean, there’s certainly a role for AI there as well.

Ian Bowie
Or even if you want to get across town, I mean, of course, I think it can even do that almost now with these real time navigation systems. They tell you how to avoid traffic jams and roadworks and

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, to some extent at least.

Ian Bowie
It’s pretty much there. But then of course, you’d have aI working on the engine management system to reduce the amount of let’s say fuel, okay, of course, everybody’s gonna go electric, aren’t they? But even even the amount of electricity you’re consuming with your batteries. Yeah, yeah. Things like energy efficiency is a big one. Controlling that, and I suppose green would be, you know, the horticultural thing because you’re actually getting much higher yields with far less energy than you were before. And it’s a combination of you know, the concept now of vertical horticulture where they can go up. So you have the same footprint of let’s say, a greenhouse, and then you just utilize the air space within the greenhouse now.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. So basically, there are two applications for AI there. One is regulating of course, the light and then the other water, and I guess other nutrients.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, absolutely. So of course, then there you go. You see, of course, it can be the AI is optimizing everything, which also includes the reduction of the need for water, or the amount of water that’s needed.

Michael Stormbom
Well, and that of course, also allows for growing things closer to your location in a way if you can use vertical if you can use vertical space. Oh, yeah. So you don’t need to necessarily import it from the other end of the EU. You can grow it locally. Reduces the transport. Yes.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I mean, of course, you could take a much smaller footprint and grow exactly the same as what you were growing before. Yeah. Simply because you’ve gone up rather than out. Yeah. Yeah. But certainly the idea of turning cities green. I mean, you know this idea of vertical horticulture, then you should basically be able to grow produce all over a city, because now you don’t need very much open space on the top of apartment buildings. Absolutely.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, indeed and I’m very keen on like, roof, ceiling parks. You know, I think it would be good use of space that’s otherwise not used.

Ian Bowie
Absolutely. Yeah. I’m not sure if you can introduce those into old buildings, because of course, that sort of stuff does weigh. You know, start planting a couple of trees on top of an apartment building…

Michael Stormbom
That wasn’t designed to hold it. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, that would cause problems. But if you design it into the structure of a building, then this shouldn’t be a problem at all.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, well, another thing was there was this article there about this new data center just now they’re gonna be constructing in Espoo, of course, all the heat that it generates will of course be used for for heating. So yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Actually, I mean, we spoke about the environmental impact of these cryptocurrencies. So at least that’s something that the cryptocurrency community has taken to heart. So I think there was a recent change in Etherium, for example, that reduced it by 99%, the energy consumption and there’s been a proposal do the same thing in Bitcoin.

Ian Bowie
So they’ve reduced energy consumption by 99%. Yeah, well, how on earth have they managed to do that?

Michael Stormbom
Apparently, just some changes to the algorithm can have rather significant impact. Yeah. So. So I mean, we spoke about this before, so I read an article that said that Bitcoin mining, it uses the same amount of electricity as the entire nation of Sweden. I think, was the latest. They always compare to different countries, so Sweden is the latest one.

Ian Bowie
Yeah but mind you there’s only about 10 million people in Sweden, so…

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, but supposedly, those are changes to the underlying algorithms would have a rather significant impact on the energy consumption, which, if those numbers are of course, accurate, that will make them a little bit more palatable from an environmental perspective.

Ian Bowie
The if is the key thing there, isn’t it.

Michael Stormbom
Ifs and buts. Yes, indeed.

Ian Bowie
But okay, all right. So they’ve managed to reduce the cost of mining Etherium by 99%.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. So the article claims and a similar change will then affect the biggest one which is Bitcoin, so it could reduce this rather significantly. So…

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I mean, like for example, alright, we talked about the energy consumption of having to have massive data farms to provide the information that AI requires, but we didn’t really talk about the manufacturing that’s required to create the service to build the actual buildings that house these places, the systems required to keep them cool enough so they don’t just go into meltdown.

Michael Stormbom
No, that’s absolutely right. I mean, there’s a big, big environmental impact.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, there’s actually a massive business around AI isn’t there, really, it’s not just the AI itself. It’s everything that supports it.

Michael Stormbom
And of course, there’s the possibility to also do forecasting of, of electricity needs sort of, so you don’t…

Ian Bowie
Demand. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, of course, in industry and in factories as well, you can optimize for environmental impact there, as well.

Ian Bowie
So it can be used it can be used in architecture.

Michael Stormbom
In architecture, creating more optimal buildings, for sure.

Ian Bowie
Absolutely. Yeah. Especially, for example, the heating and cooling of buildings.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, absolutely.

Ian Bowie
So it sounds like a lot of it’s about optimization. Isn’t it really.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, it’s all about optimization actually do machine learning so that’s yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I was gonna say I mean, I suppose basically, it’s AI greening the world. Actually, I suppose also, because I know what one one thing that governments are struggling with, is the drop in revenues that they’re going to receive from fuel duty, as more and more people switch to electric cars. And I would imagine that… I know the British government are looking into this is the creation of, for example, smart roads. That, you know, monitor… I suppose it’s some kind of system that works between the car and the road, but then they know how much you’ve been driving. And then they can charge you accordingly. Because then they know how much how much you’ve been using the roads. So I mean, I can imagine that AI would have a part to play in that as well.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. And I think here in Finland,there was this proposal of having this sort of tax based on how much you drove, he would have to install this sort of device in your, in your car and then, to measure how much you’re driving.

Ian Bowie
And then of course, you would absolutely want to maximize driving efficiency by ensuring that you always took the shortest possible route from A to B.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, for sure. And then, of course, it’s about other things like how you accelerate and for example, starting and stopping and so forth. I mean, are those fuel usage aspects as well.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, but of course, you’re not gonna have to worry about fuel uses it because of course, ultimately driving an electric car. Yeah, we do need to worry.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, of course, it’s an environment environmental act of creating the battery and manufacturing the car, for sure.

Ian Bowie
But yeah, I mean, if you if you want to talk about AI being green, I suppose. You have to look at possibly how it is utilized in order to increase efficiencies, and reduce energy consumption in maybe specific areas.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, indeed. I mean, it’s all about optimization at the end of the day, so using AI to monitor, for example, your own carbon footprint, or monitoring carbon footprint of the industry. Yeah, for example. Yeah. So there certainly AI will play a big role.

Ian Bowie
Although there was quite an interesting report I think we’ve both read. And one of the sort of caveats in that report was that it will not really have very much if any effect on for example, Sub-Saharan Africa, simply because they don’t have the digital infrastructure to support mass AI use.

Michael Stormbom
No indeed. So I mean, in in that report, there is quite a bit of caveats around exactly that. Yes, AI could possibly play a significant role. Well, we can talk about how significant that actually is, after I finish my point. But I mean, it presupposes that the infrastructure is there to actually make use of AI. And if there’s no if there’s no infrastructure to use AI, obviously, there’s no benefit to AI in the first place. Not to mention then, of course, the carbon footprint of creating the infrastructure for AI in the first place.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I mean, I think I think there’s a way that actually, you know, I mean, I think we all know now that the world has a finite amount of resources. So in actual fact, possibly one area which AI could be very helpful in is actually resource allocation, whatever to look at demographics and to see where people are, and to see what, I mean, I’m not talking about mineral wealth, for example, but I’m talking about, you know, literally access to food and clean water because we also know for example, that you know, many parts of the world and that’s not just Sub-Saharan Africa, but also for example, in South America, in the bigger cities, places like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. They have got serious, clean water shortages.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no indeed. You can use hail for example, for well monitoring pollution and…

Ian Bowie
Also for modeling, you know, what’s going to happen in the future? No, absolutely. Because if people run out of water, they have no other option but to move somewhere where there is greater access to clean water. There’s no choice. Yeah, absolutely. But then, you know, I mean, even even in North America, you know, you’ve got places like Arizona, Texas, many parts of California…

Michael Stormbom
Is on fire at all times.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. No, absolutely. We can I mean, it’s something that we just take for granted here in Finland.

Michael Stormbom
We do, we do.

Ian Bowie
We turn on a tap you can drink the water straight out of the tap you know, you know a shower, you know, stand under a shower all day long if you want to.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, yeah, total waste of water. But yes, you can.

Ian Bowie
Complete waste of water water Yeah, but you know, I mean, think about how much water we use. You know how many times you flush the toilet? How long do you leave the shower running? Your washing machine, your dishwasher? Washing your car? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, huge. I think per person it will be very interesting to know actually how many liters of water we use actually.

Michael Stormbom
I think one would be quite shocked if you… Yeah, no but in my apartment building there… So it used to be that you paid a fixed, fixed monthly price for the water, like regardless of how much you used, but now we just had this renovation so now it’s changed

Ian Bowie
Now you’re on a meter.

Michael Stormbom
On a mater. I think it’s actually legislation that compels it. No but then you actually get a pretty accurate reading off your own water consumption and you pay for as much as you use. So I would think something, I think that would help also in driving, a little bit more awareness of your own usage and maybe reducing it a bit. One would hope.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, you would think so. It depends how much the water costs. Well, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
You know, and of course, demand to water is relatively inelastic. You need to drink after all, so…

Ian Bowie
Well you got to drink it. Yeah. But again, this is something else that’s completely ridiculous in this country. We have access to perfectly drinkable, perfectly clean water everywhere throughout the whole country. And still, the supermarkets are full of bottled water. Oh, yes. How ridiculous is that?

Michael Stormbom
Ridiculous. So I mean, I think the report tried to paint it in a fairly positive light, take a look at all these things you can do with AI and with that, you can we can you reduce our carbon emissions by by 4%. But what isn’t really stated in the article, that 4% isn’t really put in context, because that’s, that’s only about, well, we need quite a bit more, I think tenfold more to actually get emissions down to a level where climate change won’t to have completely catastrophic consequences for us in the future. So in that sense…

Ian Bowie
But that’s a bit discouraging. Really, because we know it’s not gonna happen.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yeah, that’s the thing.

Ian Bowie
I mean, come on, you gotta take a reality check. Yeah, you know, that’s just not gonna

Michael Stormbom
I try my best to make a positive episode about this. You just, we just have to face the cold hard truth on this one. But yeah, so I mean, basically AI can play a role but it’s not really about AI. It’s about humans. Wonder how Elon Musk is doing with that Mars colonization..

Ian Bowie
And during the whole pandemic, you know, all the data was there to show how much better it was for the world that suddenly all these flights were not taking off. Yeah, and yet, now that we’ve gone into kind of living with the virus mode, passenger air traffic, at least in the UK, is pretty much back to pre pandemic levels already.

Michael Stormbom
People can’t help themselves. Oh, no.

Ian Bowie
No, you know, people can’t, you know, it’s a cheap flight. Great, you know, let’s get away.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. So AI or no AI ,if people don’t change their behaviors,,,

Ian Bowie
It’s people. Yeah, you know, we can create the technologies we can create the systems we can we can we can,

Michael Stormbom
If we ain’t gonna use them they ain’t gonna help.

Ian Bowie
No, if people are not going to be the change. There’s nothing that AI can do for them. Yeah, not really. I suppose you go, you go back to that. Sort of Terminator dystopian reality, where the machines take over. And they realize actually how useless human beings really are. Sad, isn’t it?

Michael Stormbom
Quite.

Ian Bowie
Yes.

Michael Stormbom
And on that happy note, I think we end this episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai