#21: The Scooter Episode

Ian Bowie
Hello and welcome to AI unfiltered with me, Ian Bowie, and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom. Where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Ian Bowie
So now we’re live, very good!

Michael Stormbom
We are live in the sense that we will edit this together and put it online at a later date. So in that sense live. Yes.

Ian Bowie
So let’s talk about scooters because I did something on Saturday that I thought I probably wouldn’t never do.

Michael Stormbom
You went to listen to the German eurodance band scooter?

Ian Bowie
Is that right. I never heard of them. Yeah, but no, no, I actually got on one of these electric scooters that they have around town. Mentioning no actual names, but I was blown away. Yeah, I’m a convert. Absolutely.

Michael Stormbom
They’re quite fun to ride, aren’t they.

Ian Bowie
They’re a scream. Yeah, no, it was absolutely epic. Anybody who knows Turku knows that Turku was actually built on hills, a little bit like Rome. And one of the highest hills in the center of town is where the old prison used to be, which is now being redeveloped into very nice apartment buildings. And it’s quite high. So me and a friend we walked to the top of the hill and then we got on the scooters and scooted all the way down again. It was so much fun. It’s quite interesting, because they must use some kind of geotagging technology because when you finish a ride, you end the ride and then they want you to take a photograph, and that must be so that they can then know the location of the scooter that you’ve just hopped off.

Ian Bowie
That and also, to make sure to verify that you’ve parked it correctly, that you didn’t just leave it lying there on the road.

Ian Bowie
Well, I don’t know how they’re gonna know that, because when we when I took a photograph, all I did is I took a photograph of the QR code.

Michael Stormbom
Aren’t you supposed to take a picture of the entire… Oh, you mean when you log it off, because sometimes it also asks you to take a picture of the actual scooter.

Ian Bowie
Oh does it? Yeah. All right. Well, I can’t read that text because I’ve got my distance glasses and if I haven’t got my reading glasses, I can just work out it says please take photograph. So I do and that’s it.

Michael Stormbom
No, but I mean they definitely have GPS in them. Because I mean I’ve seen them around like the people like go and pick them up afterwards and place them in strategic locations for people to find them, so when they pick them up and also to charge the batteries of the scooters. I think it’s a nighttime thing that they do, that people drive around and then, pick them up, and replace the batteries, and put them in spots that are convenient for people to find them.

Ian Bowie
Well, actually the green ones, they seem to have some kind of battery replacement system because there’s actually a restaurant that has a stock of those batteries and you can pop in, swap them out.

Michael Stormbom
You swap the batteries basically. Yeah,

Ian Bowie
Yeah. But how do you know that? They’re there? I only know because I happened to be in the restaurant having a cup of coffee, and I saw them.

Michael Stormbom
Well presumably to have a list of where they keep the batteries stored.

Ian Bowie
I haven’t checked the app that carefully. I don’t think it’s going to become my main mode of transport because it’s, sorry people, a little bit too expensive people.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. And also using it regularly, the costs add up quite a bit for sure.

Ian Bowie
Well, yeah, I mean, I was messing about for about 10 minutes. It cost me two and a half euros. Well, I mean, another 50 cents, and that’s the bus ticket. So if I wanted to ride into town on one of those scooters at the prices that they charge, I reckon it would be about six or seven euros to get into town from here. And only three on the bus.

Michael Stormbom
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, of course, the convenience of it is of course you can go on those whenever you like there’s no timetable to keep track of and you can go from exactly the place you want to go to, because you don’t have to go to specific locations..

Ian Bowie
There are a lot more fun than the bus of course, but..

Michael Stormbom
And they’re a lot more fun. Yes. And and you don’t get exposed to COVID in the while driving your scooter and all that.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, well. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
I’m a fan of public transport. I’m not I’m not bashing that at all. But they are fun to ride, the scooters.

Ian Bowie
Well, yeah. Well, you’ve got your own

Michael Stormbom
And I got my own. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I think if I was going to start using them regularly, I’d probably invest in one myself.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, definitely because those individual rides, the cost adds up. I mean, you save it quite quickly by buying your own. There are those really like monster ones that can drive like really really fast as well and they’re really heavy duty batteries and stuff like that. They sound very risky.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I suppose they’re not really meant for crowded riverbanks and places like that.

Michael Stormbom
No, probably not, no.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, yeah. But it just I must admit I did feel that the max speed of 20 kilometers now is a little bit slow.

Michael Stormbom
But I’m personally quite happy with 20 kilometers, any more than that, because I’m quite exposed as well. Well, I know you should wear a helmet but yes, well of course on the scooters on those rides you rarely see…

Ian Bowie
Wear a helmet shouldn’t you? Yes.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. But of course people rarely do, do they.

Ian Bowie
I think I’ve probably seen about one in 40 scooter riders wearing a helmet.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, so I mean, of course it’s the same as riding a bike, if you do, do wear a helmet, and of course if you get if you hit your head at those speeds…

Ian Bowie
That’s the thing that you know, I mean, I would never get on a bike without wearing a helmet. Yeah, for sure. You know, in a way that this the same should go for the scooters.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I think so. I have to say that. I mean, people have a certain amount of common sense when it comes to bicycles. And at least I mean, it’s been some years now that you’ve had this scooters, those that you can just pick up on the street. Can’t say that the same common sense has really been there automatically. No, it’s not because people don’t when they leave them, they just leave them on the street and like in the middle of the road and people trip over them and so forth, and just drive like crazy. So it doesn’t seem like the same sort of common sense that people have, if not naturally at least learned with bicycles is there when it comes to the scooters.

Ian Bowie
I think the difference between the bicycle and the situation, you know if they’re on a bicycle is their bicycle. So they’re going to park it somewhere proper, and they’re going to look after it. But it’s the same with everything, isn’t it? You know, the minute it’s a rental doesn’t matter if it’s a rented car, or it’s a rented house or apartment, if it’s rented. So, you know, even quite ordinary, normal, nice people don’t seem to really care as much as they would if it was their own property.

Michael Stormbom
Well yeah, for sure. I mean, I actually read this was about these scooter companies in the United States. But I mean, the lifespan for these shared scooters. I mean, it was something ridiculous, like a couple of months, at the most, like three months, something like that. Also if you want to talk about environmental impact. If their lifespan is only three months, then the cost, the environmental impact of creating it in the first place is not offset by its short lifespan. So you have to use some a longer time for it.

Ian Bowie
There’s a direct contradiction. Yes indeed, in that to their marketing as well, isn’t it, because of course they’re marketing it as a green solution.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, but it’s not all that green if their lifespan is very short. Absolutely not. So the lifespan, they definitely need to get them… Yeah. Well, I have not seen any data for how it is here in Finland with regards to those. No, but I mean, it’s a precondition is that their lifespan is long enough, otherwise it doesn’t offset the manufacturing, environmental impact at all.

Ian Bowie
There’s no way that lifespan is going to be long enough. I mean, even if it was a whole season, let’s say what, six months, seven months it’s not enough, is it really, unless they can be recycled.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yeah. And of course I mean, you can have swapped the batteries and so forth and you’re sure you can perform maintenance on them.

Ian Bowie
Well, I think they can probably, I mean if as long as the frame is strong enough, everything else can be swapped out.

Michael Stormbom
I would think so. Yeah, for sure.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. So I’m sure that’s what they do. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
No, but I mean, they are a lot of fun to ride and I mean, quite convenient if you need to go from point A to point B and, for example, there’s no bus line that is very suitable for that.

Ian Bowie
So yeah, and of course, that’s when things like scooters become relevant. Or any kind of personalized transport.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. And I mean, there was all sorts of interesting iterations of those. Do you remember the, this was supposed to be the invention of the century, or however it was, you know, the Segway, when they introduced that? Yeah, I mean, the Segway is essentially like a scooter, just that the wheels are arranged differently than on a scooter.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, that was supposed to revolutionize transport, which I guess it really didn’t at the time, but maybe not it is then.

Ian Bowie
I think the end they all ended up being used by security guards in shopping malls. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. But Segway is one of, they also produce these scooters..

Ian Bowie
They do now. But these scooter companies, the ones that we imagine that they must be using AI, in some form or other?

Michael Stormbom
I mean, at least I think it would be a number of use cases, for example. Well, we talked about the lifespan of scooters, predicting the lifespan of the scooters. Predicting the battery length, like when it’s time to swap or replace the battery, optimal positioning of the scooters. Because of course people can leave them in various places, but then during nighttime they come and pick them up and place them in sort of convenient locations for people in the morning. So So you could surely use AI to figure out the optimal place to play them. Yeah, totally. I mean, all the data that comes in, of course, because there surely all sorts of data being collected on them at all times.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, so they can they can see as far as when they’re being used. Yeah. What the average use time is distances covered. Yeah, absolutely. And probably routes taken as well.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, because there are also different speed limits, or caps on the speed depending on where you are. So if you’re driving on, like a pedestrian area, they can automatically set your max speed to, what is it, six kilometers per hour, so you don’t you know, run over people while driving in the centers.

Ian Bowie
I know they they change the speed limit after midnight.

Michael Stormbom
That as well, and I think one of them had like a drunk test of some kind, or making sure that you’re not too inebriated to drive them if I understood correctly. I don’t know how that works, but you have to do something on the phone.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, yeah, well, no, because I mean, there have been quite a few accidents.

Michael Stormbom
There have, and of course, and as noted, most people do not use helmets. And if driving during nighttime and drunk, of course… I think, I mean, there’s been an increase in sort of, like, for example, injuries to the head and injuries, eye injuries and all that sort of stuff.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Well, yeah. Like you say, I mean, it’s just like riding a bicycle. You know, you should take proper precautions and wear some safety equipment. I was just sort of thinking about you know, safety, because also bicycles are exactly the same. Do you know about that Swedish helmet design, it’s not actually a helmet. It’s like a scarf that you wear around your neck, and it’s a bit like an airbag. And basically, if you’re on your bicycle and you start to fall, it senses and then deploys the whole airbag and it just comes up over your whole head.

Michael Stormbom
I’ve heard about it. Yes. So is that an actual product or just a conceptual…

Ian Bowie
Oh, yeah, no, no, no, it’s a product. You can buy it. All right. It’s not cheap. It’s about 300 euros. And it’s a one time use only. It’s like, it’s like the new style of life jackets. The ones that are very, very small, but then the minute you hit the water they deploy. But you can only use them once. And they’re they’re quite expensive. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, you can only use an airbag once. Right? In a car, and then you have to replace it.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I’m just wondering. I mean, that’s obviously that’s sensors, movement sensors of some sort. Yeah. But I wonder if they can start attaching sensors to scooters that detect you know, this person is not fit or this is a very busy area. But that well, they do, you said that they do.

Michael Stormbom
They know it’s a busy area well that is just based on map locations, so if you’re in the very heart in the center of Turku, for example, and obviously they have marked out okay, these are the areas where the speed should be limited and there’s no intelligence there as said, but of course, it could be made more dynamic so it… well why not have sensors detecting how many pedestrians are around, for example?

Ian Bowie
Well, so yeah, so I think in the proximity of them, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
And then it can start beeping automatically if you’re driving. You’re too close. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Or if you’re having a very strange sort of trajectory, let’s say you’re wiggling too much on the thing, then it can detect and be like, hey, slow things down.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. So there’s quite a lot that could be done actually to enhance safety.

Michael Stormbom
And I don’t know, maybe it’s already done or something. I don’t know. If one of our listeners know better, please tell us, and of course I mean, at least here in Finland. I don’t know. I think it’s only in the really bigger cities that the scooters are even available. the ride sharing ones, the scooter sharing ones.

Ian Bowie
Well, there’s no point in having the countryside, is there.

Michael Stormbom
A little too large distances. So I guess there you have to…

Ian Bowie
Well it’s not just the large distances. I mean, it’s the fact that there’s nobody living out there to drive. You know, you need a critical mass of people, so they’re only going to work in city areas really well. Yes.

Michael Stormbom
But only they’re really larger, well, larger by Finnish standards. But yeah.

Ian Bowie
I mean here in Finland, I mean, where are they? I just visited Lahti and Lahti is about 120,000 people maybe. And I don’t think they had them there.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, and also, I think Turku, Tampere and Helsinki, I think that’s about ir. Yeah, the usual triangle there, I think.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just not economically viable in smaller places. Yeah, no, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I was trying one of those in in Stockholm. And while there’s quite a lot of this cobblestone roads, wasn’t entirely comfortable riding one of those at least there in the center of Stockholm.

Ian Bowie
Must have been around the sort of old old part of the town was

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was actually quite literally through the old town of Stockholm. It was not. It was quite uncomfortable. I have to say.

Ian Bowie
I think you need a smooth surface.

Michael Stormbom
You need asphalt, that’s what you need. I have to say to take on some of those ride sharing ones when I’ve been driving here in Turku, you know, starting to be autumn, then the leaves are on the ground. So the grip is not terribly, terribly good on those tires. So you can easily you can easily sort of like skid off. So one has to be a little bit careful definitely.

Ian Bowie
Is your personal scooter better at that.

Michael Stormbom
I think it has better grip. Yes.

Ian Bowie
Right. So it’s a different kind of tire.

Michael Stormbom
It’s a different kind of tire. So I mean, I guess they are rubber tires on the ride sharing ones. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. You mean they’re solid rubber on the on the rideshare ones. I guess.

Michael Stormbom
I think so.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean-

Michael Stormbom
Otherwise, it would be a hassle to replace the wheels. Or tires. Yeah. yeah. But what happens if you get a puncture?

Michael Stormbom
Then I have to buckle down and buy a spare tire for it or..

Michael Stormbom
A whole tire?

Ian Bowie
I think so. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Do you use it quite a lot? I mean, how many kilometers do you think?

Michael Stormbom
No, not really. I mean, during summertime, it’s nice to drive around. And of course during wintertime it’s no point. And if it’s raining then I don’t use it because the thing to.. so during summer months, I would say it’s pretty much the peak season and other than that, not so much. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Do you think it’s paid for itself, or?

Michael Stormbom
I would say in terms of… I would say so. Yes. I mean, I’ve had it for a year or two. Right? Okay, compared to just using the ride sharing ones. Oh, I mean, in that sense it has paid itself back. Yeah. But of course, there’s also the temptation of using it for a distance that you would otherwise have been perfectly able to walk. So I think there’s that risk as well.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, well, were you’re not tempted to buy an electric bicycle instead of a scooter. What made you buy the scooter?

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, electric bicycles are significantly more expensive.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, true. Yeah. Because I was just looking at one yesterday, 3000 Euros. Blimey.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Whereas the scooter usually, even though the more high end ones, are around 600 euros, thereabouts. Here in Finland at least. So I mean, it’s a significant price difference, for sure.

Ian Bowie
Just a bit. Yeah, of course an electric bicycle is possibly more usable.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yes, plus, you can get at least a little bit of exercise.

Ian Bowie
Exercise and also of course, you can go a lot further.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yes. Yeah. So I mean, I think in the scooters, in the best of circumstances, you can get maybe 30 kilometers out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is fine if you if you want to be in a 15 kilometer radius, or don’t mind walking the extra bit when the battery runs out. But…

Ian Bowie
Maybe that’s fair enough. I mean, I don’t think you would use scooters for much more than that anyway.

Michael Stormbom
No, I mean, otherwise, if you really need to go farther then it would take quite a long time.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, are these scooters a genuine green mode of transport? Or are they just a convenience and a bit of fun?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I would say it’s definitely more towards the convenience and fun, at least given, again, not sure about the lifespan of these in Turku or in Finland in general, but the lifespan has to be sufficiently long for them to really be greener than red. Let’s put it like that.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, but it’s the same with everything, isn’t it?

Michael Stormbom
It’s the same with everything. Electric electric cars. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
I mean, you know, we do have a hybrid. It’s Toyota’s regenerative technology, so no plugins or anything like that. And of course, I have to say I do get a personal kick out of driving on the electric part. Because then, you know, for about 30 seconds I feel like I’m doing my bit for the planet.

Michael Stormbom
Creating a greener world 30 seconds at a time, yes.

Ian Bowie
But I at the same time, I know that, you know, if I decide to start heading north to our cottage, which is 400 kilometers away, that I don’t have to worry, or have any kind of ranging anxiety, because basically, it really runs on petrol.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. And I mean, I think it’s the same when I’m out riding the scooter that would I be, am I replacing like a redder or, or less environmentally friendly way of getting there, or would I’ve just not have gone there in the first place? So I go out and drive for fun and, but if I didn’t have a scooter, and I wouldn’t be driving, so then the greenest option would have been to not have gotten a scooter in the first place.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai