#27: AI and Food

Ian Bowie
Hello and welcome to AI Unfiltered with me Ian Bowie and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom, where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Michael Stormbom
In today’s episode of the podcast we’ll be talking about AI and food, especially the role of AI in the food making process. How far away are we from kitchens and restaurants completely staffed by robots? And well, there are certainly a number of places where AI can be used to improve the food making process.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I mean, even even in the sort of hotel and catering business. It’s very much an employee’s market at the moment. So we might my son was determined that he was only going to do dinner service as a chef. And they agreed, yeah. Yeah, they still need people for breakfast and lunches, but he said, no, I’ll do the dinner. That’s it.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Quite a lot of people left the, of course, the restaurant industry.

Ian Bowie
It’s indicative of the fact that, you know, they need good staff. And they’re few and far between these days.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, it’s just not an industry that people are choosing to get into either. And more people are leaving. Yeah, there’s absolutely the question of salary level and working conditions and after two years of a pandemic where you couldn’t work, a lot of people have switched industries.

Ian Bowie
So maybe there’s an opportunity for AI to start taking over your artificially enabled robotic chef.

Michael Stormbom
I would say so I mean, if there aren’t people then yeah, that’s what I’ve that’s what I’ve been saying about for example, translation to Swedish in Finland. There just aren’t a whole lot of translators from Finnish to Swedish. So. Okay. Well, if there aren’t humans. And then the robots have to do the work. There has to be a machine. Yeah. It’s one of the drivers for technological innovation.

Ian Bowie
I think there are actually restaurants around where they use quite a lot of automation to prepare the food.

Michael Stormbom
I’m sure. Surely they have these are like, semi prepared stuff that it can finalize.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, well, I mean, you would think you know, if you can get robots to build a car, you should be able to get them to make a meal. Shouldn’t you really I mean, same principle. Yes. Yeah. A damn site simpler.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, and I mean, of course in fast food restaurants, of course. It’s a very standardized process, how you make the food, isn’t it? Like are just so that could…

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I’m actually surprised that there isn’t already a fully automated completely autonomous McDonald’s.

Michael Stormbom
We need to make a study trip to Japan because I’m sure they have something of that sort.

Ian Bowie
Something like that. It won’t. It won’t be a McDonald’s it’ll be something else.

Michael Stormbom
Something of the sort, some fast food thing anyway. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Totally automated. But I mean, a hambuerge would be simple wouldn’t I mean, think about it. You know, it’s two pieces of a bun. A piece of salad.

Michael Stormbom
It’s a well defined processes. Yeah, actually, I’m gonna Google it because we can always cut this from the episode…

Ian Bowie
Automated, completely autonomous hamburger restaurant.

Michael Stormbom
I will Google a burger robot and see what comes up. Okay, fresh burgers cooked by a robot chef.

Ian Bowie
Is this something you can buy for your home or is this a place that you go?

Michael Stormbom
it looks like some sort of like sort of a machine thing?

Ian Bowie
Some kind of machine, isn’t it? Yeah. Because I know for example, you know, if you think about coffee, yeah, fully automated.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. In fact, there are certain coffee machines nowadays. And they can follow you around the world. So it doesn’t matter where you are, as long as you’re using that particular brand of coffee machine. They know exactly what you like and how you like it. So you will always get exactly the same cup of coffee.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, yeah. And they talk about they’re talking about artificially intelligent, the write here. But yeah, it’s like a vending vending machine. Like it’s a vending machine for burgers. Yeah. And then the vending machine assembles the burger. Yeah. Yep. So it’s coming. People. It’s coming.

Ian Bowie
It’s quite cool, though, isn’t it? Actually, you know, for simple things like that.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Well, for a predictable, predictable process. I mean sure. I mean, it’s…

Ian Bowie
I don’t think any AI enabled robot is ever going to win a Michelin star. But I mean, they can certainly put together a taco or a hamburger or a hot dog for you.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, although I wouldn’t rule out… they should have like a special like Michelin thing for robots.

Ian Bowie
Michelin-starred robots.

Michael Stormbom
The Michelin Ai.

Ian Bowie
Why not? I mean, they can 3D print food nowadays as well.

Michael Stormbom
Well they can yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I haven’t tried any.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, either, but why not?

Ian Bowie
It’s an interesting idea.

Michael Stormbom
It is. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Plus, if you have I mean, if you’re coming back to this fast food thing, if you have a robot preparing it of course, then you can really standardize it across different locations, because then it’s exactly the same process.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, the process is the same, but it also means that the ingredients have to be the same as well.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yeah, that’s true.

Ian Bowie
So I suppose that’s the sort of difficult part.

Michael Stormbom
Might be more difficult to standardise? Well, unless you start 3D printing the meat.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I was gonna say, 3D printing thing might be much easier to standardize, because basically you just make up batches of whatever goo it is, and just ship it to all the places where they can print it. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, it’s another heavy roboticized thing anyway, the meat industry, like meat packing, as well.

Ian Bowie
We need to eat less meat. Anyway.

Michael Stormbom
Well, that we do.

Ian Bowie
3D printed carrot. Sounds good.

Michael Stormbom
Well, as long as it has all the nutrients of the originating product.

Ian Bowie
But I think I think I saw them 3D print a pizza once.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I bet they did.

Ian Bowie
That was quite funky.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, and I think the pizza would be quite easy to to automate.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Actually, I think you could probably…. one of my little hobbies is barbecues. And I could see a role for AI integrated into a barbecue system. And that can be quite cool.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, it could help you to, like get the optimal barbecue for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe it could learn how you like it. And then it sort of does it automatically.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I haven’t really thought it through but I’m sure it will be possible.

Michael Stormbom
Then it could have this sort of like analysis is today a good day for barbecuing and then it can send you a message on the phone. And by the way, I’ve ordered all of the meat and it will….

Ian Bowie
Well yeah, I mean, why not? Absolutely.

Michael Stormbom
Invited the guests, and all you need to do is show up.

Ian Bowie
It could turn itself on. Yeah, heat itself up. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
And put the meat on the thing as well. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Actually, I can see like if you’re a foodie, how you could use AI, you know, imagine? All right, I think this, this will somehow have to be combined with maybe some kind of GPS system, but imagine that you are a real foodie. And you’re just driving along somewhere. Then you decided, okay, nice to have something, oh, maybe French, maybe Provence and the car’s listening to you. And then it comes up with suggestions and range and where they are. And you just choose one and then it automatically takes you there or informs the restaurant and books the table and everything’s done.

Michael Stormbom
Or it automatically sends an order to one of these food delivery services. And then someone shows up on a motorcycle next to you and knocks on your window like hey, why not? And even that, I mean, I think they will do sort of transport robots as well. Apparently in Espoo they have them.

Ian Bowie
Those things Yeah. Little mini-robots running around, causing chaos everywhere.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, yeah.

Ian Bowie
I mean, they look pretty cool. But I I must admit, I couldn’t help thinking well, they must cause chaos.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, for one thing people aren’t used to them.

Ian Bowie
But going back to the food thing

Michael Stormbom
Yes.

Ian Bowie
Food on demand.

Michael Stormbom
Food on demand. Yes.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. But this is not fast food anymore. This is just, you know, I want food. I want it now. And to have a system that can you know, not necessarily anticipate what you want to eat but knows what you want to eat, and can just order it and have it delivered.

Michael Stormbom
And can balance your buy to get enough nutrients and…

Ian Bowie
Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s an awful you know, I mean, we often think, oh, goodness me. Again, it’s time to make a list of what we need to buy from the supermarket, and we’ve got to think about what we want to eat next week. And it just gets monotonous and boring.

Michael Stormbom
In a sense it’s the Netflix problem. Like what should I watch next. So yeah, if you have an a recommender algorithm that recommends you something and then hopefully does a good job. Well, that’s a challenging problem.

Ian Bowie
So yeah, I mean, it seems like AI is now finding its way into, for example, restaurant kitchens. Fujitsu have got some kind of monitoring system that monitors how people wash their hands. They have a recommended six step process. And they can see how what kitchen staff in the restaurant are actually washing their hands and if they’re complying with that process.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, so I mean, that’s a nice application of AI for monitoring purposes and of course, it can be applied in, well in health in general.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. They’re also using AI for trend forecasting within the food industry. So I mean, there’s a company in Singapore. And what they’re actually doing is that they’re helping a consumer packaged goods company, create best selling products. So they’ve got some kind of predictive analytics software as a service, which allows innovation teams to follow trends in real time.

Michael Stormbom
Right, to help with product development, basically. Yeah, right.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. So that was pretty cool.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, and um, and of course, you can use for example, forecasting like, well supply needs, I mean, if you have a kitchen and you need supplies.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Nutrition, yeah. It’s another area. Increasing the actual nutritional value of foods. Oh, yeah. A big one. Yeah. Yeah. So actually what they do of course, this is processed foods, but what they’re doing is they help the manufacturers to actually formulate and create healthier food products.

Michael Stormbom
I think that’s a that’s a big one. Yeah. Given how much processed food we eat.

Ian Bowie
Absolutely. Yeah. Food delivery is another area sort of maximizing or the food supply chain. So you know, there’s numerous areas in which it can be used. I quite like the hand washing thing. I think that was quite nice, because you know, I don’t know what you’re like, but I think every time I go to a restaurant, I always wonder about the hygiene processes of the particular kitchen of the restaurant that I’m going to eat at. I mean, you know, there are varying standards. I think we know that.

Michael Stormbom
There are, I mean they are forced to put that sign there by the door the results of the health inspection. Yeah, yeah, no, but I mean, certainly monitoring, adhering to health standards, for sure.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, actually being monitoring it. So it can actually set up a little red light when somebody doesn’t for example, follow the six step handwashing protocol.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. I mean, procedures when it comes to cleaning the kitchen and so forth. That they are also followed.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Food sorting is another area that if you think about quality control, AI probably has a very good role to play there.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, definitely. So assessment of quality for sure.

Ian Bowie
Absolutely. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Well, another one is, of course, optimization, from the point of view of avoiding food waste. So you don’t spend you don’t use too much supplies or create too much food that you don’t have to throw away.

Ian Bowie
And food safety. So I think you know, this is a huge role there too.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean yeah, so you have an AI food inspector.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, basically. Yeah. I wonder actually, if it will eventually make food cheaper, you know, I mean, for example, food sorting. Traditionally, that’s been very labor intensive. Labor intensive, it’s therefore expensive.

Michael Stormbom
It might, or then the owners will take the increased profit, in principle yeah and if you automate it, then…

Ian Bowie
You would think, wouldn’t you? Actually I was in Japan. And one thing that I noticed about Japan is a number of vending machines. You know, they’ve got vending machines for everything. It’s something that hasn’t really sort of taken off in Europe. But I mean, you know, you can get your dinner from a vending machine, eat breakfast from a vending machine. I wonder if this is a trend that might eventually come to Europe?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, well, I think that burger vending machine that we just talked about.

Ian Bowie
That was one example wasn’t. Did you know what country that came from?

Michael Stormbom
That was the United States. Yeah. But uh, ya know, I mean, we’ve been talking about the labor shortage in restaurant industry is of course.

Ian Bowie
Automation is going to be good. Would you buy a vending machine hamburger?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, why not? I mean, I’m sure it’s equally as unhealthy… it will contribute to my heart attack either way, so…

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I mean, we buy drinks from vending machines.

Michael Stormbom
Why not the burger.

Ian Bowie
Why not the burger as well. Yeah. I guess it was a funny little article earlier, and it’s KFC Kentucky Fried Chicken. And apparently, it’s only in the sort of trial stages, but they’ve got this self service kiosk, and it’s using facial recognition. To recognize previous customers so that it can then tailor their offering when they return for more of the good stuff.

Michael Stormbom
That’s interesting. So but it doesn’t know anything else about the customer, except that that face has been there before, does it?

Ian Bowie
Well, I don’t know. I mean, because if I suppose if the face is is linked to a bill…

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, then you could identify…

Ian Bowie
You know what they had the last time they were in. So it must… because I mean, the face on its own is no good to you. You know, if you’re going to tailor the experience you need to know what experience they had the last time they were in.

Michael Stormbom
Well, yeah, but I mean of course if you have the, if you know the face and you know what was ordered on that point. But of course then you can… but if you pay with a card, of course you would know who who it is.

Ian Bowie
You would then. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I don’t quite know how sophisticated I mean, apparently they’re only trialing it. But it seems quite interesting. Of course, I suppose it presupposes. For example, if you go into McDonald’s, that every time you go in, you want a Big Mac. Well, you might not so I’m a little bit suspicious about these so called tailored experiences, because you know, you don’t necessarily want the same thing again and again and again.

Michael Stormbom
No, indeed, and I keep getting this you know, quote unquote, personalized ads whenever you’ve been on some website and then you get the same ad over and over again.

Ian Bowie
You just fpn’t want it. You know it’s presuming that we are creatures of habit. Okay. I mean, you can argue most people are but sometimes you want to just a little bit do something outside of the box.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I think it’s comes down to that a lot of this recommendation things are not that sophisticated in terms of recommending.

Ian Bowie
Not yet.

Michael Stormbom
Not yet anyway.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Maybe one day there’ll be some kind of facial recognition system that can see okay, he’s looking a bit manic today. He’s probably in the mood for something different. So let’s hit him with dunk. And then…

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, are you show up at four in the morning and then like, aha! So he has been in a pub. So now it’s time to push the extra greasy stuff?

Ian Bowie
That’s right. Yeah. Sausages are on offer right now. Number three, yes. But no, I mean, it was part of a wider article about AI in the fast food industry. And of course, what they were saying is you know, you can be greeted when you come in using AI. You can be seated, using AI, your order and this was quite an interesting one as well. They were saying that you can use technology to take your order. And of course, the danger in especially very busy restaurants is that a human being might mishear what you’re trying to order, and that you end up with the wrong food. But with, you know, a machine, it doesn’t. If you’ve been into some of these fast food restaurants recently, they now have these massive screens, and you just go to the screen, and you scroll through, click, click, click, click, click what you want. And then say yes, then pay and then you go and sit down and they…

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, perfect for us, for us people here in Finland who want to avoid interactions with other human beings as much as possible.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, but I mean also, things like checkout-less supermarkets. I think they’ve already got them. In places like California haven’t they. I think Amazon has got a few now where you literally just you walk in and they know you there. You go around the shop, filling a basket full of whatever you want. You walk through a scanner and out the door and you’re gone and the money is automatically charged from your account or your credit card.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think we’re that far away from… wehave those self service things here as not as sophisticated and the payment doesn’t happen automatically.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, but that thing that I just described. Yeah, they actually have it working in America. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, the leap is not that large.

Ian Bowie
No. Well, I mean, it was only five years ago, 10 years ago, when they introduced the first self checkout counters in Finland.

Michael Stormbom
Thereabouts. Yeah, yeah.

Ian Bowie
And now, they’re ubiquitous. They’re everywhere.

Michael Stormbom
In fact, you get annoyed when you go into a store and there isn’t…

Ian Bowie
Yes, actually, yes. If you’ve just got a couple of items. Yeah. Yeah. It’s quite irritating if you haven’t got one of those places to go to.

Michael Stormbom
Yes. I mean, if you consider how ubiquitous to self service machines are these days in supermarkets, in fast food places, hotels, and so forth, I think we’re just going to see the trend of increased automation continue.

Ian Bowie
Yeah.

Ian Bowie
You’ve been listening to me Ian Bowie, and my colleague, Michael Stormbom, on AI Unfiltered and for more episodes, please go to aiunfiltered.com. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai