#32: Doomscrolling and the Mental Impact of Constant Connectedness

Ian Bowie
Hello and welcome to AI unfiltered with me Ian Bowie and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom, where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Michael Stormbom
In today’s episode of the podcast, we’ll be talking about the rather negative impact of digitalization and especially the mental impact of constantly being online on some device or the other

Ian Bowie
But I think, actually one of the big things for me is how much of a distraction for example, mobile phones are.

Michael Stormbom
For sure. I mean, as we speak, I’m looking at my mobile phone looking at my notes.

Ian Bowie
That’s right, you know, I mean, and a friend of mine was just around for coffee, and constantly picking up her phone to see if some messages come in, or maybe what was going on in the world that hadn’t been going on five minutes earlier.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, indeed, and you know, one of the neologisms of recent time is you know, doom scrolling. You know, you’re just looking at all the terrible things that are happening around thwe world.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, well, I think I’m maybe I’m a bit guilty about that.

Michael Stormbom
I think we all are quite frankly.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Actually, it was quite interesting. I was in a class yesterday, and one of my students said that she actually doesn’t read the news that often anymore because she needs to protect herself. Now, can you imagine back in the days prior to, you know, digital news feeds that somebody would say, well, I don’t touch the newspapers because I need to protect myself.

Michael Stormbom
But I mean, a key distinction is that back in the good old days of newspapers. You only got the newspaper once a day. Yes. Twice a day. Possibly.

Ian Bowie
There was the evening news as well.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. But now he’s just constantly around all the time. All the time. Yeah. Yeah, there was a natural shall we say lack of news all the time.

Ian Bowie
But do you think there’s been an increase in negative news or is it just the sheer volume of news?

Michael Stormbom
I think it’s the volume. Yeah. And of course, we spoken about clickbait and, and I liked it. Yeah. Headlines need to attract an audience or they become, it becomes more and more extreme in a way. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Well, it’s difficult to know whether it’s digitalization that’s having this negative impact on mental health, or is it just that, you know, people are more willing to talk about mental health issues than they were, let’s say 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Michael Stormbom
I think it’s a combination that on the one hand, we are better at acknowledging mental health issues. But on the other end, there’s also the fact that we are constantly surrounded by these devices, and they’re spewing content, negative news at us all the time.

Ian Bowie
Because we have a choice. We don’t actually have to read that negative news.

Michael Stormbom
And that’s what your student just said that well to protect herself.

Ian Bowie
Well yeah, but there’s also actually if you deliberately go looking for positive news, you can find it. I mean, I downloaded an app a while back, and it’s called Feedly. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it.

Michael Stormbom
No, I haven’t.

Ian Bowie
No. Well, I deliberately wanted to find news channels that were pushing more positive news. And I did a Google search, and this was one of them, Feedly. and I downloaded it and okay, I mean, of course, it comes up with all kinds of stuff. But I mean, if I look at it right now, I’m just opening it as I’m talking. And let’s see what’s coming. Right. Okay, so we’ve got Amazon’s Kindle Scribe is an E-Ink – As I haven’t got my reading glasses on – Amazon’s Kindle Scribe is an E-Ink tablet for reading. What else have we got on here? Google is trying to reinvent search. Apple might let you test satellite SOS without sending, etc. So I mean, you know, nothing really negative there. So you can find, you know, these kinds of apps. They will just push either neutral or possibly even positive news at you.

Michael Stormbom
No, for sure.

Ian Bowie
So I think in a way we perhaps have to make a conscious choice and choose positivity over negative.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, we certainly do but then, I think on the other hand, it’s also good to, in that sense, maintain contact with reality, like bad things happen and sometimes you need to be aware of them. Absolutely. So I think we need to find a balance. You don’t have to do the doom scroll check every every five minutes not happening in Ukraine. You can probably wait for two hours. I’t’s happening. So probably every once in a while. It’s good to be aware of what is happening.

Ian Bowie
This is also true. Yeah, but of course you know, we also need to perhaps be able to verify, verify the source.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I think that’s and then validate it. I think that’s another thing, because everything has to be reported immediately. So perhaps not as much emphasis on actually checking the facts and and especially now in a war situation what I mean you can’t trust everything that pops up on Twitter, or you just can’t.

Ian Bowie
No. And then what I’ve noticed is there’s been an increase in this kind of speculative commentary.

Michael Stormbom
Well, that is the thing because I don’t think it’s, there’s more news to report now than there was, let’s say 20 years ago, but now they just need to fill…

Ian Bowie
They need to fill the gap don’t they. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, you’ve got this huge amount of speculation, which I find very, very unhelpful. Do you think Putin is really going to push the nuclear button for example, and then you’ve got people discussing that? Well, I don’t..

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, it reeks of the old Kremlinology trying to read the tea leaves during this. Yeah, speculation without really any…. Well, of course, one phenomenon that predates the current era of digitalization is of course those 24 hour news channels where you have the same thing where you’re have to constantly have something on.

Ian Bowie
Yes.

Michael Stormbom
So and in conjunction with that. These sort of like opinion journalism rose as well, so where you need to fill the dead air with something and then…

Ian Bowie
True. So I’m going going going going back to this doom scrolling thing, I suppose if people are doing exactly that. And then of course, it’s not a surprise that there’s maybe an increase in things like depression I mean…

Michael Stormbom
Indeed not and I mean, there are any number of aspects in relation to that on social media that has a profound negative impact. I mean, it’s the case that we are more connected than we’ve ever been. And yet we are somehow simultaneously more socially isolated than we’ve ever been.

Ian Bowie
So in actual fact, more connected and more disconnected.

Michael Stormbom
Indeed, indeed. Yeah. Because of course, you need real human interaction, not just over devices.

Ian Bowie
No, absolutely. I mean, for example, you know, well, okay, it’s starting to thank goodness, become something from the distant past. But for two, two and a half years, a lot of my lessons went online. Well, now we’ve just started the autumn term. And I’m starting to meet students again, and a lot of them are oh, it’s so nice to actually see you again, and be in the same room. So you know, I mean, people crave social interaction, and they need that sort of physicality of being in the same place.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah no for sure, I mean just simple things like, like seeing a person’s facial expressions and nonverbal cues and all that sort of…

Ian Bowie
Yeah. But actually, for some people, I suppose it’s actually exacerbated the problem and made it even worse.

Michael Stormbom
Because you haven’t actually had the need to leave your apartment.

Ian Bowie
And now they don’t want to.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, because I mean now it’s been two years.

Ian Bowie
So almost agoraphobic effect of being stuck inside for over two years. I mean, one thing that I’ve actually noticed, especially in Finland, is the, you know, the propensity for people to send text messages in preference to actually physically calling somebody. I mean, even that.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I very rarely speak on the phone.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, my preference is normally to call. Yeah. Although having said that, of course, depending on the time of day, because you know, if you know somebody is probably going to be busy or working or in a meeting, then of course, then maybe sending a quick text message is better.

Michael Stormbom
Well of course another thing now that we’re always on these devices. So for example, if you’re looking at your phone right before you’re sleeping, that’s very bad.

Ian Bowie
Well, apparently that’s also very bad for your actual sleep pattern. Messes with your brainwaves.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, because your brain thinks it’s sunlight. So therefore, why are you sleeping?

Ian Bowie
So it’s interrupts or it’s interfering with your circadian rhythm. There you go as a technical term for you.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’ve taken to not having my mobile phone in my bedroom.

Ian Bowie
I’ve never had my mobile phone in my bedroom. No.

Michael Stormbom
Because otherwise, it’s just too easy to just look at it in the evening and then yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah, of course. The these devices have some sort of like blue blue light filter that supposedly filters out the the bad light, the bad frequencies, but i don’t i don’t know to what extent they actually help.

Ian Bowie
No I’ve got no idea.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, paper book before sleep.

Ian Bowie
You’ve gone back to the paper book.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that’s better for your sleep to…

Ian Bowie
Absolutely. You know, listen to music.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, indeed. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
But I must admit, I’m getting a bit tired of the pervasiveness of, of these handheld devices. Everywhere you go. You’ve got mothers pushing prams and looking at this stupid phone, or, you know, idiots riding scooters and looking at their stupid phone Yeah. And of course, people driving cars, riding bicycles and goodness knows what they’re doing all kinds of things. Rather than just concentrate on what they should be doing. Yeah, being in the moment.

Michael Stormbom
And I mean, it takes away people’s ability to be bored, as well, because you can always look at your device and I think it’s a rather important human trait, the ability to be bored.

Ian Bowie
I read an article about that recently, actually, and it said actually, that for your own mental health, you sometimes need to be bored. Yeah, yes. Can you be bored with being bored? Double boredom.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. If you allow yourself to be bored.

Ian Bowie
That’s a thought, isn’t it?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, but I mean it’s an important thing to be able to be bored. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. I used to spend quite a lot of time surfing the internet. But what I’ve found recently is I just don’t have the interest because there’s nothing there. Or at least nothing easy to find that’s interesting anymore. Or intellectually stimulating. You know, the news isn’t. It’s just rubbish. That no, there just isn’t anything out there.

Michael Stormbom
You’ve reached the end of the internet. Congratulations.

Ian Bowie
I think I have. Yeah, no, really, I sort of think because I’ve been thinking you know, should I buy myself a tablet computer and for what, why? No reason. All right. If I was traveling a lot on trains and planes, I might have one for watching films and maybe listening to music.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, I have a tablet that I drag along for trips and have ebooks on there and so forth. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Even though I do prefer paper books, but.

Ian Bowie
Well, I was gonna say I just one of the reasons I didn’t mention books because I actually don’t like reading books from digital sources.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, it’s a bit more straining on the eyes.

Ian Bowie
I mean, not even Kindle. I’ve tried Kindle and even that. No, doesn’t do it for me. If I need to read something like that out, I would read the actual book.

Michael Stormbom
Just something about, like the physical tangibility of an actual book.

Ian Bowie
I actually even magazines you know, I actually like magazines. You pick up a magazine and flick through. It’s nice. It’s a sort of tactile experience. So no, I’m not really a fan of sort of digital content.

Michael Stormbom
Digital content.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, yeah. No, I prefer printed media. Yeah. Of course. I’m also that generation that even remembers printed media.

Michael Stormbom
What is that? Yeah, no, but…

Ian Bowie
What I’ve noticed now, because I’ve really been thinking, you know, my smartphone is getting quite old. It’s six and a half years old now. And it’s probably going to be very soon time to get a new one. And I thought, well, what would go back to the old fashioned kind of phone. But what I’ve realized actually, for example, if you want to access your bank account on a computer, you also need the mobile phone. Yeah, because it asks you for a bloody code.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, indeed. And what happens if the phone breaks, and you can’t…

Ian Bowie
You know, I mean, back in the day used to get a piece of paper and it had all these codes and you would cross them off as you use them. But now, it’s some mobile thing app on your phone that generates the code. Yeah. To get into your bank account? Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
And well, I mean, never mind the fact that you can’t actually speak to a person at the bank anymore. Which I mean, it’s handy if you are able to use the technology, but if you’re not and you’ve lived your entire life, that you’ll go to the bank in person. There is no person there anymore.

Ian Bowie
There’s people like me who perhaps are getting to a stage where they might like to opt out. Yeah, but you can’t.

Michael Stormbom
No, you end up in a cabin.

Ian Bowie
With no bank account.

Michael Stormbom
With no bank account. No. Without a bank account, you can basically do nothing.

Ian Bowie
Now I’m starting to find that quite frustrating. Maybe that’s gonna have a negative impact on my mental health. I want to get out of this madness. And you can’t.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, no, it’s impossible. Well, impossible, impossible, but extremely difficult.

Ian Bowie
Which makes you think that perhaps we really are living in a matrix. Maybe not the matrix, but a matrix

Michael Stormbom
A matrix. Well, I mean, we talked about the metaverse beforehand. Yeah. And how we are a very much already living in a metaverse.

Ian Bowie
But this is a very ugly future. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
No, no, it is indeed, yes.

Ian Bowie
No, it’s not a future that you can find yourself looking forward to at all.

Michael Stormbom
Not necessarily no, and then if you add up, everything else that is going on with climate change.

Ian Bowie
Yes, and also the price of electricity. You know, all of these devices have got to be charged. Yeah, of course, electric companies. Oh, yeah. Yummy, yummy. Bring it on.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, we’re gonna have to start a premium podcast to cover our costs of production.

Ian Bowie
Well, yeah, actually, that’s true. Yeah. No, crazy.

Michael Stormbom
Absolutely crazy. Yeah. We are struggling to find some type of positive mental health impacts.

Ian Bowie
Well, no, I mean, there was there was a thing we talked about once about robot dogs, wasn’t it? You know, robot pets, and and introducing those into, for example, old people’s homes. Yeah, can help improve mental health within sort of care homes and things like that?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, indeed. And I mean, I mean, lowering the threshold to, to get to mental health services or health services in general, of course.

Ian Bowie
And then, of course, is the other thing that for example, chatbots and that kind of technology won’t lie to you, unless it’s been designed to lie to you, but on the whole, you know, it doesn’t know the answer. It tells you, I can’t answer that. To be quite honest with you the only answer to the lack of carers in the health care system is eventually it’s going to be technology it has to be.

Michael Stormbom
Well it has to be that’s the only way to make it up. Yeah, I mean, apparently we’re not going to pay on nurses. So no, then we need robots.

Ian Bowie
Which are even more expensive.

Michael Stormbom
If you build them with a large enough scale, I suppose. Then then they will rise up and take over society and we’re back….

Michael Stormbom
Well, they’ll figure out these people are not worth caring for anyway, let’s get rid of them. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Then we’re back in Terminator territory.

Ian Bowie
Yes, again. It all seems to come back round to terminators doesn’t it.

Michael Stormbom
We have been doom scrolling too much.

Ian Bowie
I think we have Yeah,

Michael Stormbom
We’re pathologically unable to think of any positive to say on the topic.

Ian Bowie
No. Oh, by the way. Yeah. There is one thing about impact on mental health and digitalization. Dating. I was talking to a guy today about this is one dating thing called Tinder. Yeah. And, you know, even he’s a young chap. And even he agreed it’s a complete meat market. And very, very superficial.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, it’s all about scrolling, looking at pictures and well, swipe left and swipe right.

Ian Bowie
Exactly, you know, and of course, if you happen to be on Tinder and you’re always getting turned down, you can imagine that that’s really eventually going to impact…

Michael Stormbom
Well, yhat’s not very good for your self esteem. Is it?

Ian Bowie
No, no, at all. Yeah. So you know, I think you’ve got a little bit question that kind of platform. I don’t necessarily think…

Michael Stormbom
I think it’d be interesting if there were, if someone were to ever do a study on how many people have actually met through Tinder and have…

Ian Bowie
Formed a proper relationship.

Michael Stormbom
Versus the amount of people who have never met anyone? Yeah, what is the success rate? I mean, what’s the definition of success.

Ian Bowie
I don’t really know many people who would admit to have ever having been on Tinder. But I do know one guy. He eventually did meet his wife through Tinder. And they’ve been married now for quite a lot of years. And it seems to be quite happy. Together.

Michael Stormbom
I was on Tinder maybe 10 years ago. But then I met people the old fashioned way. So yeah, that’s worked out better in the end and yeah, yeah.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. No, it’s somehow there’s something not quite right. About that kind of platform to me.

Michael Stormbom
No, but I mean, it comes back to the instant gratification thing that we’ve been talking about before so yeah, I mean, you immediately know, okay, picture No, reject, reject, reject, accept. Yeah. I mean, don’t actually get to know someone through…

Ian Bowie
Well it’s not my world.

Michael Stormbom
I think we also want to do an episode about how to use digitalization and AI to support and enhance mental health. That’s a topic that we’ll come back to in a later episode. I think.

Ian Bowie
This is starting to sound a bit like a conspiracy theory. Now. AI is used to cause mental health issues, and then it’s brought in to try and cure them as well.

Michael Stormbom
It’s the disease and the cure.

Ian Bowie
That’s right. Yeah. So it’s a bit like you know, the scientists inventing some disease, but in the background, they’ve also got the cure, which they’re intending to sell for a fortune.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, indeed. So AI and anxiety and the cure is of course more AI.

Ian Bowie
That’s right yeah.

Ian Bowie
You’ve been listening to me, Ian Bowie, and my colleague, Michael Stormbom, on AI Unfiltered and for more episodes, please go to aiunfiltered.com. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai