#45: Esports and Live-Streaming Games

Ian Bowie
Hello and welcome to AI Unfiltered with me, Ian Bowie, and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom, where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Michael Stormbom
Today we are talking about esports and video game live streaming more generally.

Ian Bowie
Well yeah, esports of course, because it’s not gaming anymore, actually, is it?

Michael Stormbom
Well, that refers specifically to when you’re playing it competitively.

Ian Bowie
But aren’t you always playing a game competitively?

Michael Stormbom
Yes, but in a more… true.

Ian Bowie
Were you playing Angry Birds for fun or competitively? I’ve got to beat everybody else.

Michael Stormbom
Well, certainly Angry Birds you play for the entertainment value, but just so that you play in competition against other players in the industry. Esports you know, they’re even televised events where people are playing Counter Strike and…

Ian Bowie
On television.

Michael Stormbom
On television.

Ian Bowie
Surely it’s not on television. It’s streamed streamed via YouTube or something or the internet.

Michael Stormbom
There’s a live stream but literally on Finnish television they have shown those eSports events.

Ian Bowie
but I mean, I suppose I mean, eSports kind of came out of nowhere, didn’t it? Really. I suppose if you really paid attention, you would have seen it coming.

Michael Stormbom
In a way. But maybe that’s also something that pandemic helped.

Michael Stormbom
I think it did didn’t it.

Michael Stormbom
You can literally play from the comfort of your own home eSports have been a growing industry throughout the 2000 10s and by 2020, there was nearly half a billion viewers and annual revenues exceeding $1 billion. Though the concept of competing and playing video games have been around as long as there have been video games, of course.

Ian Bowie
I think first really registered on my radar when I heard about somebody winning a million dollars in prize money for winning Fortnite or something.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, there are people who make a living.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, there are whole teams now. There’s a whole support system around them isn’t there. Yeah. Very, very much personal trainers, nutritionists and all kinds of people now. Hanging on.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, I mean, it’s like, like any other sports. Yeah.

Ian Bowie
But I mean, there’s there’s a whole sort of industry grown up around this. Isn’t that I mean, there’s there’s an esports Academy. And I know, I know, in the UK, I can’t remember which university it was, but they were, I think they were the first in the world to actually offer a bachelor’s degree in esports. And it wasn’t it wasn’t about just playing but it was also about organising events. It was about marketing. And monetizing. You know, it was it was quite interesting actually.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, it is its own thing now.

Ian Bowie
If it had been 20 odd years younger, I might have gone for it myself. Quite interesting.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. With a long career in Counter Strike to follow.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, well, I mean, I wouldn’t, you know, have gone in with with the idea of of having anything to do with playing myself. What are the the the infrastructure around it? You know, organizing and promoting events, for example. Yeah. But it also kind of brings us to the question that if this is now a new industry, and quite a lucrative industry and worth actually I think many billions, should there be something on the school curriculum about this?

Michael Stormbom
About esports or gaming, rather

Ian Bowie
Esports, or gaming in general, or, you know, marketing, advertising, promotion?

Michael Stormbom
I mean, it’s, those are skills that can be transferable to other fields of industry not that’s not esports specific.

Ian Bowie
Well, no, that’s true. No, yeah. Yeah. But I’m just wondering about, you know, the whole…

Michael Stormbom
Well I think, again, it comes back to what we’ve spoken before about learning to communicate, because I mean, that’s what marketing is all about, communication.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, true. So communication skills, social skills, interpersonal skills, going back to esports. Anyway.

Michael Stormbom
How about the politics of esports. Yeah, interesting, yes.

Ian Bowie
I was gonna say something silly that we couldn’t possibly broadcast, so I won’t.

Michael Stormbom
And there was the cut and you missed the thing.

Ian Bowie
Yes, yeah.

Michael Stormbom
But esports, Yes.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. No, I mean, because I mean that. I think it comes in all shapes and sizes, doesn’t it? I mean, you mentioned Counter Strike a few times. I mentioned Fortnite. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah there are tons of other. Rocket League is that game where you pay us or you’re a car or you drive a car and you kick around the ball. So it’s like a football, footballish. With cars.

Ian Bowie
Okay. All right. So it’s a big one sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson would like to play.

Michael Stormbom
He should strike up a deal.

Ian Bowie
Well, they did that didn’t they do remember in one of the Top Gear episodes they they played football with a giant football and cars.

Michael Stormbom
Well, that’s the real live version.

Ian Bowie
Well, that’s not that’s what I mean. Yeah. So I mean, it sounds exactly up his street. There. Yeah. Yeah. Which are the ones that are making the big money.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, so as reported by esportearnings.com The top game supporting price money that’s the ones number one is Dota2. Number two is Fortnite. Number three, Counter Strike. Number four, League of Legends. Arena of Valor. Never heard that one actually.

Ian Bowie
Sounds like a gladiator kind of game.

Michael Stormbom
And other games in the top 20 include Player Unknown Battlegrounds. Starcraft 2, Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege, Hearthstone, you can make money from that one. Okay, interesting.

Ian Bowie
Hearthstone, Hearthstone, Hearthstone, what’s that about.

Michael Stormbom
It’s a good so like a card game like a virtual card game card game.

Ian Bowie
Poker.

Michael Stormbom
No. Rocket League, Heroes of the Storm Apex legends, all sorts of stuff here. Call of Duty. Even World of Warcraft which we had the idea of doing a podcast in. Halo five,

Ian Bowie
Does it does it give any numbers like how much money

Michael Stormbom
So number one was Dota2, which $310 million.

Ian Bowie
Good grief. What? in prize money?

Michael Stormbom
Top games awarding prize money. Yes. That’s quite a lot.

Ian Bowie
There must have many many many tournaments to give out that kind of money.

Michael Stormbom
Oh yeah, for sure. So um, and that seems to be the biggest one. But indeed the most popular one in terms of players is this Counter Strike Global Offensive, which I think that’s the one I’ve seen on television as well. Right. Yeah, but it’s a big.

Ian Bowie
Hundreds of millions of dollars. Wow.

Michael Stormbom
I’m a professional Pong player myself. Yeah, I’ve made several euros over the past decade. I’m joking.

Ian Bowie
Well, actually, I mean, it’s possible, isn’t it? Because I mean. Yeah, because people also pay too, or they don’t actually know they do. It’s some kind of like, donation thing, isn’t it? You know, if you like watching me play this game, please donate.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, you can make money that way as well. Yeah. And that’s how for example, PewDiePie did it in there. So that’s of course not esports is just making money from playing games. Yeah, maybe that’s the topic of it. Maybe…

Ian Bowie
There’s a platform, isn’t it that you can send money through? I just can’t remember what it’s called.

Michael Stormbom
Plenty, PayPal.

Ian Bowie
No, no, not PayPal. There was another one. There’s there’s one of these…

Michael Stormbom
Venmo.

Ian Bowie
No, keep going.

Michael Stormbom
Give me money.com

Ian Bowie
No, is it real?

Michael Stormbom
I don’t know.

Ian Bowie
Go Fund Me, I know that one.

Ian Bowie
Go Fund Me, yes yes.

Ian Bowie
Well I men it’s like golf. You know, I mean, when I started to play golf, they said, oh, well. It’s because I’m not very competitive personally, but they said well, you compete against yourself.

Michael Stormbom
That’s true. And of course I mean, you can play chess competitively or you can play it…

Ian Bowie
For fun. Yeah. I suppose you can do anything competitively if you want to.

Michael Stormbom
Competitive podcasting.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, where are we in the rankings? By the way? Squash the competition.

Michael Stormbom
We’re slowly crawling up the charts. Not quite Joe Rogan levels yet.

Ian Bowie
Okay, but we’re slowly getting there. Watch out Joe, here we come. Yes. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Let’s say something controversial to get the ratings up.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Do you think AI can help Harry get his family back? Is that controversial enough for you?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Might be controversial, but is it interesting?

Ian Bowie
Probably not. Unfortunately.

Michael Stormbom
Or maybe that is controversial to not care about the monarchy.

Ian Bowie
Not especially.

Michael Stormbom
In some quarters maybe. Anyway.

Ian Bowie
We’ll care about if they pay us.

Michael Stormbom
Yes, sponsored by the British Royal Family. That would be grand.

Ian Bowie
Now that will be something wouldn’t it? Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Nothing to do with esports. But anyway.

Ian Bowie
Maybe they play sports?

Michael Stormbom
I bet they do they have time.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, absolutely.

Michael Stormbom
Sure, wasn’t there some prince? Well, I think some prince played tennis on a quite high level and then there was the racecar driver and…

Ian Bowie
Back in the day, sport was dominated by the idle rich.

Michael Stormbom
Because they had the time.

Ian Bowie
They had the time because it was all amateur you know, before they started paying the all this stupid money. They were all amateurs. And we’re the only people that had the time to really train where the rich.

Michael Stormbom
Or people could afford.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you go back to the sort of 1920s 30s 40s 50s. Yeah know, aristocrats and all kinds of people. Rich Greek tycoons’ children. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the posh sports like tennis, skiing you know. You wouldn’t you wouldn’t have you know, Lord Nobby knob playing football. Far too rough, but a bit bit of cricket. Oh, boy. Yes, polo. Of course. Yes.

Michael Stormbom
Of course. Cricket can take days so you need to have days to play it.

Ian Bowie
A spot of horce racing. Yeah, absolutely. Well, there you go. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, a little bit of athletics.

Michael Stormbom
So the modern royalty they are more into esports perhaps, or I don’t know.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Or are the are the esport champions? Modern royalty? Is this the new royalty?

Michael Stormbom
Esports…

Ian Bowie
I am the king YouTubers. Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

Michael Stormbom
I don’t know about esports but more generally playing video games for an audience over a live stream. There are certainly those celebrity streamers.

Ian Bowie
Well you see I mean, PewDiePie I don’t know what his real name is. I can’t remember but

Ian Bowie
Sven Göransson, no I have no idea.

Ian Bowie
He is a Stig or a Sven or something.

Ian Bowie
He’s a Swede anyway.

Michael Stormbom
Yes. I mean, that’s actually how he made his money. He was actually playing online games and filming himself doing it. Yes. And commenting. Yeah. Being rather entertaining. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
And I mean, that thing, game streaming. That’s a pretty that’s a big thing. So there are these certain specific streaming services like Twitch for example. People just play a game and then you can watch them.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. So I mean, where does AI sort of come in? I mean, what’s the connection?

Michael Stormbom
Well, I don’t know if AI per se but of course, this podcast is about our modern digital society. So you could use AI to monitor the players or something. For example, protect against cheating.

Ian Bowie
Do you mean like as in chess.

Michael Stormbom
As in chess.

Ian Bowie
My God.

Ian Bowie
I wonder how many people are sort of involved in a tournament.

Michael Stormbom
Those big ones they’re probably 1000s. And then you add the TV rights? So I mean, I have literally seen on TV.

Ian Bowie
A lot of these tournaments are also live, aren’t they? The teams are actually physically there aren’t. Yeah. So it’s not virtual. It’s, it’s real. And then there’s an audience as well, isn’t it?

Michael Stormbom
You know, it’s like a regular sports event in that sense,

Ian Bowie
So people are actually physically paying money to actually go and watch.

Michael Stormbom
No, definitely.

Ian Bowie
Yeah. Have you ever been to one?

Michael Stormbom
I have not. I’ve seen them on TV. Yes.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, right.

Michael Stormbom
But I will say that, that to me was the like the breakthrough moment, in terms of esports being like a massive mainstream on national television.

Ian Bowie
So I wonder, I wonder if the television channels paid that.

Michael Stormbom
I mean, I think their television rights, same as any sports event really, yeah, I think.

Ian Bowie
So when they’re doing the multimillion dollar television rights with Sky or somebody like that, then they’ve really made it overnight.

Michael Stormbom
That’s the…

Ian Bowie
You know, like, like, MTV three, going along with, you know, 10,000 euros, and then sky will pop up with 10 million here, but I think there’s a bit of a difference between, you know, a small Finnish television production company and…

Michael Stormbom
It might very well go in that direction. So exclusive on Sky. Why not.

Ian Bowie
That really would be something wouldn’t it. My goodness. I mean, who are these people that that I was about to say waste their time but spend their time watching stuff like that?

Michael Stormbom
No, but I mean, in that sense, I don’t see that it’s any different than watching any sports event like watching football on the telly.

Ian Bowie
Really?

Michael Stormbom
Yeah. Whats’ the diff, what’s the diff?

Ian Bowie
I think I need a bit of time to process that. I’m so rooted in the in the sort of, you know, traditional idea of what sport is that even though I know there’s millions involved in esports, I still have a problem with adding the word sport after ‘e’. I do I can’t help it. I just my generation. I don’t know what it is.

Michael Stormbom
Well, I mean, really, in that sense.

Ian Bowie
I’m not knocking it I’m not I’m not saying you know, it’s terrible or anything like that. I just find the idea of adding the word sport.

Michael Stormbom
Yeah it implies a certain amount of athletic endeavor.

Ian Bowie
Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of like…

Michael Stormbom
I mean, chess is a sport and there’s no I think controversy around that.

Ian Bowie
Again, I wouldn’t call it a sport. I would never call chess a sport. It’s a game with a competitive element, admittedly, but I still wouldn’t call it a sport. It’s just a game. Why can’t they call it egames? Why did they have to call it esports? I just don’t see the difference between somebody running 800 meters in a race or throwing a javelin.

Michael Stormbom
Welcome to this episode of What do words mean?

Ian Bowie
Yeah, really? Yeah. But no, it is semantics, I admit. But to me.

Michael Stormbom
My point being if if chess can be defined as a sport then esports

Ian Bowie
I disagree with that, so I would always call it a game because it’s always been a game. I wouldn’t call it a sport and I don’t..

Michael Stormbom
I have no horse in this race.

Ian Bowie
Are there any you know, I mean, like, like, for example, you know, in many sports, there are top players and they’re very well known and they’re very highly paid. And, you know, I mean, there are some names that become household names. I mean, there was a massive sort of thing in the papers recently when Pele died. Yeah, I think his name was pretty much…

Ian Bowie
Everyone knows who Pele is, for sure.

Ian Bowie
I think I think so.

Michael Stormbom
Or Maradona who died, was it last year?

Ian Bowie
Maradona, yeah. And then there’s a few others who are still alive. I think… see I mean, I don’t follow football really? You know that it was quite interesting. The the BBC published a list of notable people who died this year for 2022. The longest part of that list was football players. And I didn’t recognize a single one and it was a very long list.

Michael Stormbom
I’m sure.

Ian Bowie
you know, but they had actors. They had musicians and cricket players, swimmers, rowers, all kinds of different things, writers. But first of all, I think what was quite interesting for me was that the longest list was football. And the fact that I didn’t recognize any of them, so how notable Are they really?

Michael Stormbom
Not in your universe.

Ian Bowie
Well, not not in my univese at all and it’s the same with modern football. You know how many football players can you name.

Michael Stormbom
Who are active still?

Ian Bowie
Yeah, playing.

Michael Stormbom
Oh, I don’t know, Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Ian Bowie
No, he’s retired.

Michael Stormbom
Well then. No, I know what…

Ian Bowie
I mean. I know because I mean, going back to esport.

Michael Stormbom
To answer the question, I don’t think they’re any superstars on the level of Pele let’s say that no, so you’re so universally will know that anyone can…

Ian Bowie
Magic Johnson from the basketball

Michael Stormbom
and Michael Jordan. Yeah. Okay, now we’re just listing sports people that we have heard of, yeah, no, but I mean, point being anyway that…

Ian Bowie
Nobody has yet know appeared from the so called esport world.

Michael Stormbom
That they would transcend the esports industry, no. I mean, of course, there are those superstar players.

Ian Bowie
I’m sure there are but and they’re probably known to all the people. That’s right. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
Actually, all the esports that we mentioned, they all seem to involve an element of fighting and violence.

Michael Stormbom
That’s true, with perhaps the exception of Rocket League.

Michael Stormbom
But I just wonder why. Again, you know, this is another reason why I would I would hesitate to call these sports because most of these games are about killing. So do we now make killing a sport?

Michael Stormbom
Aren’t all sports actually metaphors for killing?

Ian Bowie
Well, I mean, did sport develop out of…

Michael Stormbom
I think so, yes.

Ian Bowie
It’s an evolution of, you know.

Michael Stormbom
Sports instead of killing each other, how about that?

Ian Bowie
Well, that would be very nice, wouldn’t it?

Michael Stormbom
And I was about playing chess with death in…

Michael Stormbom
Yeah, but yeah, again, it’s not a sport. I know. Actually it kinda is. But anyway.

Ian Bowie
No, I don’t know. I just wonder why these fighting games have become so popular. Because there are other I think I used to play a game called Quest. Yeah. Well, requires a little modicum of intelligence. I only got to about level three.

Michael Stormbom
Well, but I mean, I, I mean, in defense of Counter Strike and violence, I mean, of course, it’s not just you know, killing, killing aimlessly. Of course there’s not, I mean, there’s no strategy and tactics involved in that.

Ian Bowie
In killing. Which is the ultimate goal.

Ian Bowie
Yes.

Michael Stormbom
Kill your enemy. Yes, yes.

Michael Stormbom
But the point is not just you know, slaughter with

Ian Bowie
It’s not about just killing somebody. It’s about how you do it. Yes. All right. Great.

Michael Stormbom
It’s the journey, not the destination, man.

Ian Bowie
But mind you, I must admit, all right, Pong was I think pretty innocent in the end, wasn’t it when it first came out? But after that, once they learned how to improve these games, I think they were all sort of, you know, Space Invaders was killing, wasn’t it. You were killing the invading space aliens.

Michael Stormbom
One I remember because we, my father was very into computers. We had his, like, early 80s computer, so there’s one I remember from that was I had like a computer version of Simon says, you know, the one where it gives the sequence and then you have to repeat the sequence.

Ian Bowie
Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah, we maybe have to follow the sequence of colors or whatever. Yeah. So how

Michael Stormbom
So how about competitive Simon?

Ian Bowie
Why not? Yeah.

Michael Stormbom
World Championships.

Ian Bowie
You’ve been listening to me, Ian Bowie, and my colleague, Michael Stormbom. On AI Unfiltered and for more episodes, please go to aiunfiltered.com Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai