#1: A Gentle Introduction

Ian Bowie 0:05
Hello and welcome to AI Unfiltered with me Ian Bowie and our resident expert, Michael Stormbom, where we will be talking about everything to do with AI in our modern digital society and what the future holds for all of us.

Okay, so welcome to the very first episode of AI unfiltered, where we will be talking about everything to do with artificial intelligence, within the context of how it affects the world in which we live in particularly the digital world in which we live in. And I’m sitting here together with our resident AI expert, Michael Stormbom. And Michael, perhaps we can start with the very first question, what is AI? And where’s it come from?

Michael Stormbom 0:47
That is a very good question. I think AI and artificial intelligence is a is a term that’s applied to a lot of different things. And I think it’s been used so broad, it is practically meaningless, in some ways. So maybe the best way to approach it would be to give concrete examples of what AI is, indeed, and perhaps, concrete examples where AI is affecting our daily lives. And one example is social media, which practically all of us are using. So for example, you take a picture, and you upload it to your social media, and it automatically tags your friends and family in those pictures. So that is an example of artificial intelligence and doing the work of identifying those people and tagging them there. And well, another example is, for example, this digital assistants that we use in our daily lives. So if you’ve ever used Siri or Alexa or Google Assistant, so it is able to recognize your voice and translate that into text and understand what you’re trying to, or, and understand what you want and give responses to that’s all examples of, of AI applied in different different places there.

Ian Bowie 1:51
Yeah, actually, I think Alexa is a particularly interesting example. There’s an uncle of mine. And what he’s been doing is he’s been using Alexa to set up smart homes for people who have disabilities. So they can actually say, Alexa, turn on the television, or Alexa, turn off the lights? So I think…

Michael Stormbom 2:13
yeah, absolutely. And I mean, using different AI methodologies for accessibility, I think that’s a very – that is a field, I’m very keenly interested in personally.

Ian Bowie 2:23
So I mean, AI seems to permeate our everyday lives. I don’t think there’s anybody who doesn’t, at some stage come into contact with it. I think it’s true to say,

Michael Stormbom 2:33
I think it’s a very, very much Yeah, indeed permeates our, our daily lives and, and in places we are aware of, and places we are not aware of. So all the advertising you’re exposed to, there’s certainly AI behind that. As an…

Ian Bowie 2:48
Guess there’s also AI behind the recommendations that something like net Netflix makes for you.

Michael Stormbom 2:53
Oh, yes, definitely. So so he all the content is being pushed to its AI doing, they’re pushing there.

Ian Bowie 2:58
So they’re building up a picture of us as we live our daily lives?

Michael Stormbom 3:02
Definitely. So in the – I don’t know if it’s the ideal, ideal scenario. But for example, when Netflix does those recommendations with does it based on what you’ve previously watched, and watch what preferences you have expressed previously? So in the theoretically, at least, it should recommend you content that, that it’s that you will, that you will enjoy?

Ian Bowie 3:22
So if we think about AI in general, with respect to just normal people? Is it something that we should be worried about? Or is it something that we should embrace with open arms? Is it going to enhance and improve our daily lives? Or is it something that perhaps might actually be used against us?

Michael Stormbom 3:50
I think there’s both both cause for celebration and for concerned. So I mean, AI is a very powerful tool that can be used for for both good and for and for bad. And I think a particular issue that we should be aware of when it comes to AI is, of course, the AI is really so based on the data that is being fed to it. So the decisions are built based on the data. And there are a lot of pitfalls there. So one example that we will be talking about in a future episode is, is bias and bias hinder bias in the data and that how that affects the effects of artificial intelligence. So one concrete example is in facial recognition. Where there have been cases where, where there’s a racial bias in these facial recognition systems, not because it’s a conscious bias, but due to flaws in the data that’s being used in them. So I think that’s something that it’s important to be aware of, and a cause for concern. Certainly,

Ian Bowie 4:50
if we think about AI, in terms of our daily lives. If we think about from the moment we wake up Until the moment we go back to bed. How many times do you think AI actually touches us, as we go through the day, perhaps what would be our first interaction with AI in the day,

Michael Stormbom 5:16
that could very well be at the moment, their alarm clock rings, for example, if you’re using a calendar application, and there’s, I think Google Calendar, for example, they’ll do sort of have various things that it recommends actions based on the time of day and agenda, calendar, and so forth. For example, recommend in a tea, if you need to be in a place within within 15 minutes, and you need to start walking 15 minutes, that sort of stuff. Looking at routes, for example, what’s the traffic gonna be like? Today? For example, what’s the weather gonna be like? So many, it could start really, at the moment you wake up, it could conceivably be already while you’re sleeping, for example, if you’re trying, for example, tracking your sleeping habits and trying to optimize your sleeping habits, and might be, you might have an app on the phone that tries to help you with that. And so far, so good. When we say that it permeates your daily life, is

Ian Bowie 6:13
it a little bit sounds like we’re entering a world of the matrix?

Michael Stormbom 6:17
No, very much so. And, and I mean, we, we, as human beings, we generate so much data constantly, that is being used in this in these systems.

Ian Bowie 6:26
Do you think that people are actually consciously aware of how much data they’re giving away?

Michael Stormbom 6:32
I don’t think they’re aware of the extent, I think certainly to some, to some extent, people, of course, realize that their data is being used. But I don’t think they are really aware of just how much data is being collected, where it is being used, and how it is being used? I don’t think so.

Ian Bowie 6:49
Do we actually have any control about how much data we give away? Or is it just some kind of passive collection? as we as we sort of go through our daily life? So if you log on to an internet, online shop, for example, can can we control how much data that particular website collects about us?

Michael Stormbom 7:11
Well, there have been some, some attempts to limit that. So for example of GDPR here in the European Union and, is it, the CCPA in California, so regulation around what you can, can Oh, my smartwatch is making some vibrating noises here. So maybe we’ll leave that in the episode as an example of AI. Coming into our daily lives, but anyway, so GDPR. Yes. So I mean, there’s been attempts by the, by the governments really do controls on us a private entity, you have to, you have to be upfront about the data that you’re collecting. And you have to ask for consent. But I don’t know in practice, I mean, if you go on a webpage, and there’s this long, digital long litany of things, hey, can you please collect your data? Has anyone bothered to read it to elderly? Just push the button? And..

Ian Bowie 8:03
my my, my experience, personally, is that you just click Agree. And enter the website, because of course, what’s the alternative? If you if you click disagree, I assume then you don’t get access to the website?

Michael Stormbom 8:16
Yeah, no, indeed. And I mean, if you’re, if you’re trying to Europe to access certain American web pages, for example, I tried to go to, is it, the LA Times, for example. So they just block it in Europe because they don’t want to bother with

Ian Bowie 8:28
that’s why things like a VPN is a very useful,

Michael Stormbom 8:31
yes. Sponsored by.

Ian Bowie 8:35
Sponsored by AI. Yeah. I use one of those. So that I can I can watch BBC programmes from abroad.

Michael Stormbom 8:45
Yeah, no, no, indeed. And what was the question again?

Ian Bowie 8:53
Well, it wasn’t really a question. It was just about GDPR. Yeah. And does anybody actually read the whole splurge of of text that they put in front of you? And I think the answer to that is probably not I know that there might be the lawyer who’s read and Robert and I know quite a few lawyers and they say they never read the small print when they’re signing something.

Michael Stormbom 9:13
Yeah, no, indeed. And if you’re if you get this our terms of service they these long legal documents that does anyone bother to read them

Ian Bowie 9:20
no all the terms of a loan. I mean, actually, one lawyer said to me, there’s not a lot of point in reading them because if you don’t if you don’t agree to them, you can’t get the money so it’s a foregone conclusion.

Michael Stormbom 9:34
Yeah, yeah, while we’re recording here, my smartwatch is making noises and I’m gonna turn it off…

Ian Bowie 9:40
… it’s maybe so smart. It won’t let you turn it off. No way.

Michael Stormbom 9:43
It it doesn’t want us to tell us the truth about AI that’s what that’s what happening.

Ian Bowie 9:47
That’s it, they’re listening even as we speak.

Michael Stormbom 9:51
Let’s see where do I turn off the audio on this one there? Yeah, in a future episode, where also talking about this…

Ian Bowie 10:01
… constant overload of information, but actually, that’s quite an interesting one. Because I mean, you are somebody that I would consider to be extremely tech savvy, and you are actually experiencing a little bit of a problem turning your own smartwatch off. So I mean, I think that’s quite a big question for a lot of people that we know that this thing artificial intelligence is there. Some of us know a little bit about what it does very, very, very few of us know how it actually works. But is this actually going to become a problem in the future as the population gets older? And if we’re talking about, let’s say, I don’t know, 40% to 50% of the population, not necessarily being particularly tech savvy. But then we end up in a situation where if you want to, for example, interact with your bank, you need to have a certain level of knowledge? Is there a danger? That AI is going to make certain services inaccessible? Or is it the opposite? Is it actually going to make it easier for less tech savvy people in society to access those services in the future?

Michael Stormbom 11:16
Yeah, no, I think that’s a very good question. I think there are certainly, there’s certainly ways where AI will make things more accessible. But I do think, and it’s a big box is exactly that of digital exclusion, that not everyone has to competence are the devices to be able to, to make use of these systems. And I think the banking in the banking world, I think that’s a good example of that with all of these offices closing around the out of the country, and and you can even meet, like a bank teller in person these days. Or, or even before the corona,

Ian Bowie 11:51
I was actually just talking to somebody the other day, and they said that if you want to make an appointment, or if they want to make an appointment to go to their local bank, they need to do it about two months in advance.

Michael Stormbom 12:02
Yeah, I can believe that.

Ian Bowie 12:02
Absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you know, how on earth you are, suppose you you negotiate loans these days? Through an AI algorithm?

Michael Stormbom 12:16
I think that… Well, you probably could negotiate with a person, but there could be an AI algorithm in the in the background, telling whether you should get a loan approved or not?

Ian Bowie 12:25
Yeah, well, there you are. So I mean, who needs the person? Is the algorithm that tells the person give the person the loan or not? What’s the point in even having that person? Why not just use an algorithm?

Michael Stormbom 12:35
Yeah, no, indeed. Absolutely. And I think that’s, we were talking, we were talking about bias in a while ago. So I think there’s also there’s a huge risk of discrimination basically, based on faulty data.

Ian Bowie 12:49
But is there also a possibility, then to manipulate that data for your own ends? I mean, if you want to get a loan, surely you can lie about your personal income, for example?

Michael Stormbom 13:00
Yeah. And if you happen to know about the characteristics of the systems who would know how to game the system, and why not? I mean, that’s what happens with certain of these facial recognition systems. So if you know how to fool it, for example, drawing a particular pattern on your face. I mean, obviously, you’re not exactly equal speakers. But if you want to fool those facial recognition systems, then then you could very well do that. So basically, if you if you know, the sort of the characteristics of the system, you can certainly fool it.

Ian Bowie 13:25
So spot the bad guy. He’s the one that’s got a strange shirt. Yeah, it’s a classic one, and the policeman didn’t even spot it. Yeah,

Michael Stormbom 13:38
no, because the policeman was looking.

Ian Bowie 13:41
Just waiting for the program to tell him it’s the bad guy here. Yeah. So I mean, there’s obviously good and bad to AI. But, again, going back to that story of the of the of the bank, that if an algorithm decides whether you get the loan or not, why do you need the human being in the first place? Is a AI taking jobs? Or I should rephrase that is a AI. Taking more jobs than it’s creating?

Michael Stormbom 14:14
I think we are certainly starting to get to a point where that is exactly what is happening. And I mean, of course, all of these jobs that can be automated, are ripe for, for artificial intelligence to do to do the job. So I think we are certainly coming to a point where, if it’s not, I wouldn’t say this a foregone conclusion by where they were, where there’s a definite risk that we will automate away more jobs than we create. I think there’s a certain risk for that.

Ian Bowie 14:37
So what happens after that?

Michael Stormbom 14:41
After that, we have to introduce universal basic income and we start realizing ourselves in other ways than to work. That is the utopistic…

Ian Bowie 14:51
there is actually a future for lazy people as well.

Michael Stormbom 14:55
I hope so.

Ian Bowie 14:56
I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening to this thinking woohoo, wonderful. Yes. Bring it on!

Michael Stormbom 15:01
Well, yeah, I mean, what’s the point of AI? If we can, you know, make our lives easier, more convenient anyway?

Ian Bowie 15:07
So would you would you say that that is one of the universal purposes of AI to actually make our lives easier? To make things more convenient?

Michael Stormbom 15:19
I would say that that’s what drives a lot of it, certainly, in a way. And I’ve got it not just about convenience, it’s also about while dealing with these large data masses, that no human can do it, whether it’s convenient or not. So I mean, it’s just we do things that human beings cannot do hider I think that’s part of it as well.

Ian Bowie 15:38
Okay, so the overall picture, I think, is the AI is a positive rather than the negative.

Michael Stormbom 15:43
I think there are positive aspects and negative aspects. And I do think it will require conscious a conscious effort to to ensure that it stays on on a positive path. Let’s put it like that.

Ian Bowie 15:55
So it remains a force for good.

Michael Stormbom 15:58
Yeah, indeed. And I mean, definitely so

Ian Bowie 16:01
would you say that there are cultural differences in the way that AI is used around the world? I’m intrigued, I’m thinking immediately about China. And we’re talking about forces for good and forces for the not so good. The Chinese seem to have gone down a path where they’re using a lot of AI to control their own citizens.

Michael Stormbom 16:23
Yeah, no, I mean, of course, AI is widely used in in surveillance, for example. So. So I mean, there’s definitely, there’s definitely cultural differences. But of course, there’s also a large divide in terms of who has access to AI and who doesn’t. So certainly, we use it very extensively here, err in the, in the Western world, but for example, in developed countries, you might not have access to the, to the resources or the competencies that you would need to develop the system and really utilize them.

Ian Bowie 16:51
So of course, I suppose AI is giving us yet another advantage here in the West.

Michael Stormbom 16:55
No, I mean, I definitely think that there’s a big regional divide coming here between those who have access to these types of technologies and those who do not.

Ian Bowie 17:02
But then having said that, I suppose the danger is that AI is going to create an even greater divide between those who have and those who have not. So do you think there’s a case for us in the developed world, looking at ways in which we can use AI to help developing countries level up and attain at least a certain standard of living close to what we have here in the West?

Michael Stormbom 17:33
Yeah, absolutely. I think we have a moral obligation to use these tools and use the potential for good, I certainly, certainly believe that. And, yeah, maybe we can have perhaps make the picture with regards to as a force for good, a little bit more nuanced. And, I mean, we talked about the risk of bias, already under another aspect is, of course, they are quite resource intensive, needs a lot of electricity. So I think that’s definitely a consideration and not to been sort of stuck at home for two years, it has been shown that the assumption was that since we would be driving less, that would be less of a, there will be less of us or have a negative impact on the environment, or we would have a negative impact on the environment. But

Ian Bowie 18:21
the opposite has been true, hasn’t it? Sad? Indeed. Yeah.

Michael Stormbom 18:24
So even though we’ve been staying at home, of course, we’ve been using all of our fancy devices at home and,

Ian Bowie 18:29
and streaming a lot more reviews and everything else. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously, we can see that there’s a lot more to AI than just two words, and certainly a lot more to it than autonomous vehicles, and a few robots running around in Amazon factories. And these are all the things that we’re going to be covering over the coming weeks.

Michael Stormbom 18:50
Yeah, indeed, I think it’s a it’s a topic that we’ll be discussing for many more episodes.

Ian Bowie 18:54
Absolutely.

Yeah. So hopefully, we’ve got your interest and hopefully we can keep your interest and we hope that you will join us on this journey as we go through the world of AI.

Michael Stormbom 19:04
Looking forward to it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai